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History
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Q. Hi I would like to know if you have any information on The history of the Sacrament of baptism. Why and how baptism moved from being an adult initiation to a sacrament for the initiation of babies. This would be most apprieciated as I have an assignment due soon for University. Thank You [Teresa] A. Good question Teresa! You see, Baptism did "NOT" start out as a "Sacrament". It started out as an "Ordinance". sac·ra·ment
or·di·nance
Simply put, a sacrament is defined as a necessity to recieve Grace or Salvation if you will. An ordainance is a ceremony to give an outward showing or proof of an event. You used the term initiation which also could be used. From the lectures by J. M. Carroll called "The Trail of Blood . . ." we find exactly the answer you are looking for: 5. Another vital change which seems from history to have had its beginning before the close of the second century was on the great doctrine of Salvation itself. The Jews as well as the Pagans, had for many generations, been trained to lay great stress on Ceremonials. They had come to look upon types as anti-types, shadows as real substances, and ceremonials as real saving agencies. How easy to come thus to look upon baptism. They reasoned thus: The Bible has much to say concerning baptism. Much stress is laid upon the ordinance and one's duty concerning it. Surely it must have something to do with one's salvation. So that it was in this period that the idea of "Baptismal Regeneration" began to get a fixed hold in some of the churches. (Shackelford, page 57; Camp p. 47; Benedict, p. 286; Mosheim, vol. 1, p. 134; Christian, p. 28.) 6. The next serious error to begin creeping in, and which seems from some historians (not all) to have begun in this same century and which may be said to have been an inevitable consequence of the "baptismal regeneration" idea, was a change in the subjects of baptism. Since baptism has been declared to be an agency or means to salvation by some erring churches, then the sooner baptism takes place the better. Hence arose "infant baptism." Prior to this "believers" and "believers" only, were regarded as proper subjects for baptism. "Sprinkling" and "pouring" are not now referred to. These came in much later. For several centuries, infants, like others, were immersed. The Greek Catholics (a very large branch of the Catholic church) up to this day, have never changed the original form of baptism. They practice infant baptism but have never done otherwise than immerse the children. (Note--Some of the church historians put the beginning of infant baptism within this century, but I shall quote a short paragraph from Robinson's Ecclesiastical Researches.) "During the first three centuries, congregations all over the East subsisted in separate independent bodies, unsupported by government and consequently without any secular power over one another. All this time they were baptized churches, and though all the fathers of the first four ages, down to Jerome (A.D. 370), were of Greece, Syria and Africa, and though they give great numbers of histories of the baptism of adults, yet there is not one of the baptism of a child till the year 370." (Compendium of Baptist History, Shackelford, p. 43; Vedder, p. 50; Christian, p, 31; Orchard, p. 50, etc.) But then again you might say these are just the writing of Baptists. Well then, lets look at the Pedo-baptists (infant baptizers) and those called protestants.
I know I only scratched the surface here but I'll offer you some links to help in your research. Reference Links:
[Timothy]
Q. If the Jews went to hades in the Old Testament, where did the none Jews go [Anon] A. Hades is a general term, which means the place of the departed spirits. We will get a bit more technical here and speak of the two sections of hades, (Paradise & Torment). Paradise was the place of waiting and Torment was the place of punishment. The choice was still the same then as it is today. Those who Loved God and looked forward to the coming sacrafice of the Lamb of God were saved. Those who didn't were lost and on their way to torment. Psalms 9:14 That I may shew forth all thy praise in the gates of the daughter of Zion: I will rejoice in thy salvation. 9:15 The heathen are sunk down in the pit that they made: in the net which they hid is their own foot taken. 9:16 The Lord is known by the judgment which he executeth: the wicked is snared in the work of his own hands. Higgaion. Selah. 9:17 The wicked shall be turned into hell, and all the nations that forget God. & Psalms 65:5 By terrible things in righteousness wilt thou answer us, O God of our salvation; who art the confidence of all the ends of the earth, and of them that are afar off upon the sea: It was the duty of the Jews to carry the Salvation message to the lost world. Isiah 49:6 And he said, It is a light thing that thou shouldest be my servant to raise up the tribes of Jacob, and to restore the preserved of Israel: I will also give thee for a light to the Gentiles, that thou mayest be my salvation unto the end of the earth. The woman at the well realized this all too well when she told Jesus: John 4:19 The woman saith unto him, Sir, I perceive that thou art a prophet. 4:20 Our fathers worshipped in this mountain; and ye say, that in Jerusalem is the place where men ought to worship. 4:21 Jesus saith unto her, Woman, believe me, the hour cometh, when ye shall neither in this mountain, nor yet at Jerusalem, worship the Father. 4:22 Ye worship ye know not what: we know what we worship: for salvation is of the Jews. So to make a long story short, the believers went to paradise and the unbelievers went to hell. [Timothy]
Q. Where can I find the scriptures telling of the death of St. Peter in Rome? [Anon] A. No where in the scriptures are we told the Peter died in Rome. As a matter of fact we have no evidence that he even visited Rome. We know that Paul was executed there, and that Luke was there with him and that Mark was sent for by Paul to come to Rome. 2nd Timothy 4:11 Only Luke is with me. Take Mark, and bring him with thee: for he is profitable to me for the ministry. Peter was however in Joppa, Acts 9:38 And forasmuch as Lydda was nigh to Joppa, and the disciples had heard that Peter was there, they sent unto him two men, desiring him that he would not delay to come to them. And in Jerusalem, Acts:9:38: And forasmuch as Lydda was nigh to Joppa, and the disciples had heard that Peter was there, they sent unto him two men, desiring him that he would not delay to come to them. And also in Antioch, Galations 2:11 But when Peter was come to Antioch, I withstood him to the face, because he was to be blamed. There are some that say that Peter was the first pope of the Roman Catholic Church, but there is just no scripture to prove this. They believe, because the Savior said, Matthew 16:17 And Jesus answered and said unto him, Blessed art thou, Simon Bar-jona: for flesh and blood hath not revealed it unto thee, but my Father which is in heaven. 16:18 And I say also unto thee, That thou art Peter, and upon this rock I will build my church; and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it. that Peter was being bestowed the position of head of the Church but it was the "STATEMENT OF FAITH" Peter was making that the Lord was talking about. Not Peter himself. Faith is what Christ's Church is built on. Not on the leadership of man but of total FAITH in the Savior! Ephesians 2:8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: 2:9 Not of works, lest any man should boast. 2:10 For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them. [Timothy]
Q. I have a question about a story that some one was talking about last night in a chat room. He had asked a person if they had heard of the story "Lefty and the fat man" and then I asked about it but he was unable to tell me where to find it and I would like to read the story. He said that it was in Chronicles but I was unable to find it in there. Can you please help me with this story? [Anon] A. That was me! I had heard a preacher speaking about it but didn't get to hear but just a second or two of what was being said. I figured if I asked one of the brethren in the chat if they had heard about it, would they enlighten me. No one answered except the Holy Spirit who said, "READ THE BOOK". In otherwords study the scriptures and see what you find! So here is what I found! Judges 3:15 But when the children of Israel cried unto the Lord, the Lord raised them up a deliverer, Ehud the son of Gera, a Benjamite, a man lefthanded: and by him the children of Israel sent a present unto Eglon the king of Moab. 3:16 But Ehud made him a dagger which had two edges, of a cubit length; and he did gird it under his raiment upon his right thigh. 3:17 And he brought the present unto Eglon king of Moab: and Eglon was a very fat man. 3:18 And when he had made an end to offer the present, he sent away the people that bare the present. 3:19 But he himself turned again from the quarries that were by Gilgal, and said, I have a secret errand unto thee, O king: who said, Keep silence. And all that stood by him went out from him. 3:20 And Ehud came unto him; and he was sitting in a summer parlour, which he had for himself alone. And Ehud said, I have a message from God unto thee. And he arose out of his seat. 3:21 And Ehud put forth his left hand, and took the dagger from his right thigh, and thrust it into his belly: 3:22 And the haft also went in after the blade; and the fat closed upon the blade, so that he could not draw the dagger out of his belly; and the dirt came out. 3:23 Then Ehud went forth through the porch, and shut the doors of the parlour upon him, and locked them. [Timothy]
Q. Was the Catholic Church really to only true church. If not who is the original Church? [Anon] A. During the 1st, 2nd, and 3rd centuries the "Roman Catholic Church" or (RCC) for short, didn't exist. There was the original Church in Rome which was established by Born again believers through the teachings of Paul. The first original Church was in the Holy Land and later spread and grew through the preaching of God's missionaries. In the European area including Italy, the Doctrines that were taught by these missionaries was the same as that taught by the Savior. The Roman Government of those centuries did not understand the doctrines that were being taught by these people and through misunderstanding labeled them as cannibals because they partook of the Lord's Supper. Mark14:22: And as they did eat, Jesus took bread, and blessed, and brake it, and gave to them, and said, Take, eat: this is my body. 14:23 And he took the cup, and when he had given thanks, he gave it to them: and they all drank of it. 14:24: And he said unto them, This is my blood of the new testament, which is shed for many. It would be easy to misunderstand this if you were a pagan! Also the Roman Government quickly acted to eliminate these believers because of their teaching that God was God and not Caesar. To them this was a threat to their way of life. For 3 centuries, off and more often "on", Christians were murdered (executed) because of their faith. Then comes along Constantine who because he used the symbol of the Christians on a banner in a battle that he had won, proclaimed Christianity was the national religion. (I know this is plain spoken folks but this is the way I write.) The RCC was born. All of a sudden after the reign of Constantine it became against the law not to be a RCC member. Theodosius was the first of the Roman Emperors who pronounced "HERESY" [Not believing the Catholic way] to be a crime punishable by death. The ones who would not give in to the RCC were literally killed. The major thorn in the side of the RCC during this time where those of a sect whom we will call the Baptista (latin) - Baptimus (latin) - Ana-baptists (english) - Baptists or those who believed in emersion. Their steadfast belief in Jesus Christ being the final authority in all things, that only a personal relationship with Him because of the shed Blood Atonement he made on the cross was against Catholic dogma. It was their belief that the Pope was Christs only authority on this earth and no matter what he said, weather it went with the scriptures or not was right. Belief's of the Baptimus:
What was wrong with the above doctrine? The truth is that when we believe the scriptures we are a threat to the Vatican who wish's to dominate the world. How then can you dominate without going to war? By having your people believe that the RCC is the only one on earth that controls your Salvation. For centuries, the RCC almost had the true church hushed but there were still those who held on. Click here to read a paper on the Papal Persecutions from the FOX'S BOOK OF MARTYRS. You'll find what happened to those who didn't stick the the RCC's teachings. All this sounds familiar to me, how about you? Anyway, to deal with the pre-existing threat to their dogma, the RCC had a big pow-wow called the Council of Trent. (1545 - 1563) The Council of Trent said explicitly: "The sacrifice (in the Mass) is identical with the sacrifice of the Cross, inasmuch as Jesus Christ is a priest and victim both. The only difference lies in the manner of the offering, which is bloody upon the cross and bloodless on our altars"; and, in Canon I stated: "Whosoever shall deny that in the most holy sacrament of the Eucharist there are truly, really, and substantially contained the body and the blood of our Lord Jesus Christ, together with his soul and divinity, and consequently Christ entire, but shall affirm that he is present therein only in a sign and figure, or by his power, let him be accursed.,, In short, this means that if you don't believe the way the RCC has laid (lied) it out, you are worthy of death! Doesn't even sound like the true church, does it? Well, historically also, they were not the first, nor the original! The original Church is that which is with us today. Those who have believed in the Lamb of God. Those who are washed in the Blood! The redeemed of God! [Timothy]
Q. Who were the gnostics and did they have separate writings from the bible that were not included. [Anon] A. Historically they were a sect of Jews who believed that salvation came through knowledge and not through faith. Gnostic coming from the Greek "(gnosis) meaning knowledge". They were also in existence during the early Christian Church days, but so far I haven't found any of their writings. It seems that this train of reasoning is a little far fetched because it places man in the area where he is trying to save himself through knowledge and his own righteousness and as the scriptures plainly tell us in Isaiah 64:6 But we are all as an unclean thing, and all our righteousnesses are as filthy rags; and we all do fade as a leaf; and our iniquities, like the wind, have taken us away. and in Ephesians 2:8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: 2:9 Not of works, lest any man should boast.
Yes, they found Noah's Ark and proved it was the real McCoy. So why didn't the media announce it as it should have been?
God's Promise
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